Memories of Seles 5/24/82 - 1/11/25 raise a glass.

A friendship became a movement when a survivor searching for culturally competent therapy met a clinician who refused to treat equity like an optional add-on. What started as a phone call turned into Brain Friends—a space where lived experience and rigorous science work side by side to make aphasia, stroke recovery, and neuroplasticity feel human, practical, and possible.

We walk through the real story: how instant respect turned into a partnership, how roles formed—one voice translating from the trenches, the other anchoring with research—and how that rhythm made complex ideas usable for families, caregivers, clinicians, and researchers. Then the pivot no one wanted: sudden loss. Grief shows up as silence, stalled projects, and episodes too tender to edit. Naming that pain opens a path forward. “Progress over perfection” becomes more than a motto; it’s a care strategy for speech attempts, therapy homework, and the messy edits that stay in the final cut to normalize real recovery.

Legacy grounds the work. We highlight the scholarship honoring Dr.Seles Gadson, designed to fund equity-centered clinicians and researchers who center patient-reported outcomes and culturally responsive care. Scholarships don’t run on vibes, and support here turns memory into infrastructure—training, mentorship, and research that actually changes lives. Along the way, we talk about trust in healthcare, the realities Black women face in brain health systems, and why clear, simple language outperforms jargon when the brain is tired and the heart is full.

We close with gratitude for a new advocacy award that carries responsibility, an audio message that still lights the room, and a promise to keep showing up for survivors, caregivers, and the professionals who serve them. If this resonates, share it with someone who needs hope they can use, and help sustain the scholarship that keeps this legacy working. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us how you’re choosing progress over perfection today.

www.aphasiaadvocates.com for Brain Friends Merch

https://www.cognitiverecoverylab.com/seles

https://aphasia.org/stories/announcing-the-davetrina-seles-gadson-health-equity-grant-program/

Our beloved colleague, Dr. Davetrina Seles Gadson, passed away January 11, 2025. Dr. Gadson was an extraordinary speech-language pathologist and neuroscience researcher who devoted her energy to studying health disparities in aphasia recovery. She was a fierce advocate for improving services for individuals with aphasia, particularly Black Americans. Her research transformed our understanding of these health disparities and shed light on how we can address them. We were privileged to have Dr. Gadson as a cherished member of our lab community for four years, first as a postdoctoral fellow and then as an Instructor of Rehabilitation Medicine. She was still a close collaborator and friend to many of us at the time of her passing. Dr. Gadson was an incredible person—compassionate, inspiring, and full of life. Her dedication to advancing equity in aphasia recovery and her profound impact on our community will never be forgotten. We are committed to honoring her memory by continuing to push our field forward and fight for equitable services for all people with aphasia.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Gratitude
• 4:05 Origin Story And Partnership
• 8:40 Roles, Rhythm, And Humor
• 11:25 Remembering Celeste Beyond The Clinic
• 13:45 Sudden Loss And Living With Grief
• 18:20 Progress Over Perfection In Recovery
• 21:20 Legacy, Equity, And Scholarship Support
• 24:25 New Honors And Responsibility
• 25:00 Editing Notes And Grace

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to Brain Friends, where two neuronerds talk all things aphasia, language recovery, culture, and community. I am Dr. Datrina Celeste Gatson, a clinical speech language pathologist and neuroscientist. And I am Angie Cawthorne, stroke survivor and aphasia advocate. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Brain Friends. We want to thank all of our listeners for downloading the podcast. We appreciate everyone listening. So please tell a friend to tell a friend that we are here. And we are.

SPEAKER_01: 4:05

She was so present, so respectful, humble, and curious, truly curious. The kind of clinician, you know, that didn't just swoop in to be the hero. She showed up like a partner. And I remember thinking, okay, I see you, sis. Immediately. I was like, okay, John. Okay. And um, what's funny is I think she felt the same thing about me. Because from jump, it was instant recognition. Like, as she said in her video, Angie, you're the real deal. Oh my god, I love that. It was no fluff, no awkwardness, no pretended. It was just mutual respect from the rip. Um, and now here's the part that I still laugh about because it's our origin story, and it's it's so us. The reason I had called her originally, I tracked her down and I called her. Yeah, I called her. And um, we set up a call, and I'm like, listen, uh, black girls need therapy too. I'm looking for a therapist and that can work with people with aphasia, and because that you know, at the time, that's what I thought I needed. I'm out here trying to find some help, trying to find the right fit, and see find somebody who gets it, somebody who can deal with a black person with aphasia. You're black, you're a doctor, you must know someone. What's up? And she was like, uh no, I don't. So she didn't even hesitate. She was like, nah, I don't know nobody. And if you're listening, you're thinking, wait, Dr. Celeste didn't know anyone. Yeah, that's what she said. But then she hit me with the plot twist that changed my life. She was like, I don't know anybody, but would you be interested in recording our conversations like for a podcast? And I'm not gonna lie, I was like, what? But I had been thinking about doing a podcast anyway. She saw the vision, and I swear, it was like three weeks later, we had recorded our first episode. Now that's that's alignment, that's anointment, that's not planning. We didn't build brain fringe because we had perfect timing. We built it because we had purpose. We built it because we saw a gap, and we said, nah, not on our watch. And that you could hear from episode one. The bond was tight, the circle was complete, Avengers assemble, right? We were like, because it wasn't just like you know, host and guest, it wasn't doctor educating patient, it wasn't patient educating doctor, it was two black women, one with lived experience and a lot of inappropriate statements, and one clinical, beautiful research expert, like smart chick, building something together. Like we we did that, and for the record, less we forget, again, I am not the smart one. Let me say that clearly. So, less was the scientist, she was the brain, she was the oh, let's cite the study define the term and make sure we don't mislead anyone. We gotta take care of the people. That's what she would say. Now, me, I'm the translator, I'm the lived experience, I'm the one um brass tacks, uh, but that was our magic, that was our thing, and she held it down so much, she took the notes. Y'all know I can't read, I tell y'all this all the time. She kept the timer, she was organized with the segments, she made sure we stayed on track. She was the brains. And yes, the makeup tips. The first time we said we were gonna record on a um video, she was like, Well, be camera ready. We're gonna be recording, so are you know, make sure you know you're tight. I'm like, okay. So we get on that Saturday morning, and she's like, I thought we were gonna be ready for the video. I was. I thought I was, she was like, Oh, okay. Oh yeah, she was like, Okay, um, I mean, if that's what you work at with. And that's when the cheerleader from Bringin' Bring It On came out. Like, there was a little bit of that I heard. As I've met her friends, and I got I had the pleasure of um just meeting a whole bunch of people that obviously that knew her better than me. I mean, honestly, she came into my house. She came in, she did, she came into my life for a season, um, and now she's gone. But anyway, no, no, no, hold on. I was saying I've realized or I've heard about her as in high school, she was a cheerleader and not the empathetic, uh, humble clinician that I met. She was uh bringing on and she was that girl. So it's funny. I met the more mature seasoned, again, well marbled, you know. Um, but it's funny when you hear friends from um grade school mom, sisters, uh, and they're like, yeah, well, I mean, yeah, she was that, but she was also uh my sister, and I know what's up. Like she was my sorrow. I was online with her, and yeah, I wouldn't, I don't know if I would classify it like that the whole time, you know, but it's it's pretty cool how people uh share their stories and everything with me, with that. Because that's another thing, you know. She was a whole person. That's what I'm trying to say. She was a whole person, not a serious academic only, not a clinic only. She was multi-dimensional. She could talk about patient reported outcomes and still be like, alright, but what are you wearing now? Like, but what are you wearing? Like, what do you what what do you have on here? The only thing she didn't do is the editing. That part was on me. So if you ever listen to the show and you're like, man, that sounded so smooth. Don't play with me. That was my cut. That was my splice, okay? That was me wrestling with the software at two in the morning like it owed me money, okay? But the point is, we had a system, we had a rhythm, and then without warning, my sister's gone. And I still don't like saying it. I don't like the feel. Because it doesn't feel real. It feels like I said, she was in my life for a season, a real nice, beautiful season. She came in, we built this thing, we built this thing, we created something bigger than both of us, and now she has left this earth. No warning, no prepare your heart, no get ready, just gone. And I'm not gonna make this like a pity party about me or whatever. That's not what she would want. She was too fly for that. And I know I've I know I've said it before. Um, and to be honest with you guys, I have never the stuff that I record about her that I wind up putting out, if I'm repeating myself, I am sorry because I don't listen to it again. I can't. The same reason I have um uh episode with mom, her girl Nina, Tasky, Veronica, and my Dukes, Peter. I have this whole episode set out that I haven't been able to touch. And then I realized that that part of my grief was actually holding me up. So I had to kind of put that to the back and say, I'm not even thinking about that, and just focus on doing the show and maintaining the show so um her name can continue to teach, her voice can continue to um um affect not affect yeah, affect the next generation. Um and I'll be you know, when I'll be ready to tackle that episode, I don't know. Um but I realized I had froze, and one day it hit me. Grief had turned into a gatekeeper, and Celeste wouldn't that's that's she nah, I can't do that. So I'm choosing um I'm choosing to do what we talked about all the time, which was progress over perfection. Um yeah, she used to say that uh you know progress over perfection. And we weren't talking like you know, cute motivational poster. We were talking about speech attempts. We were talking about those moments when the words don't come out fluid, when the brain is like, I know what I what I mean, and my mouth is like, girl, holler back, you're on your own. Celeste used to mind me constantly to give myself grace. She inherently knew. She didn't need me to explain everything. She had that intuition, that empathy, that maturity that felt older than her age. And speaking of maturity, I need y'all to know. I met again that well-seasoned, well-marbled Celeste. Not the baby doc. The one who walked in the room with great authority, and I am grateful for that because though she was young, she moved like a vet. She cared like someone who had been doing this for 20, 30 years, and that's why she was so special to me and the people she served, and to the people that learned from her. Now, I also want to talk about legacy, because her legacy is just not emotional, it's structural. And there is a scholarship in her name, and I'm gonna say it plainly. It needs your support. Scholarships don't run on vibes. So if you've ever learned anything from this show, if you've shared an episode with a caregiver, if you've felt seen by the way we talk about aphasia, stroke recovery, language, cognition, fatigue, or you just really, really enjoy the icebreakers. This is a tangible way to honor her. Support the scholarship because the scholarships don't run on Instagram posts and vibes. We're not we're not, you know, that's not a thing. They run on funding, and Celeste deserves a legacy that feeds the next generation, specifically, especially the next generation of equity-centered clinicians and researchers. She was about patient-reported outcomes before folks made it trendy. Again, she was about equity before people started it treating it like a side quest. She lived that she taught that equity isn't extra, it's essential. That was her lens. That and make your dreams your reality. So, um, I want you guys to know. I'm gonna wrap up. I feel like I'm rambling a bit here. I'm gonna keep reminding people that aphasia has no cure, but there is healing, there is therapy, there is strategy, and there is neuroplasticity, there is community, there is recovery that looks different for everybody, but recovery is real, and I'm gonna keep talking about reported, patient-reported incomes, outcomes. I'm gonna keep talking about trust, I'm gonna keep talking about what it means to be a black woman, navigating brain health and this system that is really not looking to be helpful. So, I'm using a new app for editing and production. So if you hear a boo-boo, mind your business, mind your business, okay. I heard it, I just kept it pushing again. Progress over perfection. I'm doing my level best over here, folks, and I'm trying to give myself some grace. So I want um, oh, I do want to also tell you that the connection, yeah, they call themselves connect. The cattle collab connect is the collaboration to improve outcomes, presentative care, and care transitions after stroke. Connect. They awarded me with the Dave Trina Celeste Gatson SLP PhD Aphasia Advocacy Award. I am so honored to have received that award and for my girl to have been given that type of recognition. I just think that's let that set for a second. They named an advocacy award after her. That means her work was not hypothetical, it wasn't academic only, it was human, it was lived, it was felt, and I am honored, deeply, deeply honored to be the first recipient, okay? But you know, it's not just an award, that's a responsibility, and I carry it with pride. So let me say a quick thank you. Because this isn't just for me, this is for her family, her mom, to her people. Thank you for loving her out loud. Thank you for allowing the world to keep receiving her light. Thank you for not shutting the door even while you're grieving. And I'm gonna say this part with a little laugh because you already know how I get down. Ain't nobody blocked me, ain't nobody got weird, nobody acted funny. They have all been great. Because y'all know I'm crazy. Y'all know I can be a bit much, and I just appreciate that more than you know. And to my two new little sisters, Taskian and Veronica Edwards. Yeah, I'm saying it on the mic because love is love. Fam is fam. Community is community. And that's Veronica of the Veronica Edwards show. And listen, if you need accounting help, she got you. Available on all platforms. The link is in the bio. Oh my gosh. But um yeah. The season is about access. This season we're making brain health science usable. We're making aphasia make sense. We're making stroke make sense. And hopefully we can educate a few people. And I'm making sure to the best of my ability that Celeste's name stays in the room. Because when you hear her at the start of the show, that's not nostalgia, that's a legacy. So yeah, I miss my girl. I love her. And I'm grateful she came into my life for just that season. She changed the direction of my life. And I know I and now I'm here by myself, but I'm not alone. And I know that. Oh, and Veronica and Tasky, they have like uh this like book club that they invited me to, and I don't read that well, y'all know that, but the fact that I'm just in the room with them makes all the difference. So again, shout out to them. But again, I have this mission, I have this torch entrusted to me to carry. So I'm gonna keep showing up, I'm gonna keep recording, I'm gonna keep pushing the conversation forward for survivors, for caregivers, for clinicians, for researchers, for the whole community. This is a thank you, this is a salute, and this is a promise. We will not forget Dr. Davitrina Zales Gatson for her work, for her brilliance, for her black girl magic. And if you want to honor her today again, here's that call to action. Support the scholarships in her name, share episodes, maybe not this one, because this one was just for us. This is a family episode. And the last thing she said to me, I'm the last thing she recorded when she um she was going into the hospital like that day, and the NAA was giving me an award for advocacy, and they wanted people, it was like a surprise. So they asked people to record themselves saying, you know, congratulations, Angie, bop, bop, bop. Um, and it's the last thing that she recorded on tape, and it was to me. So I'm gonna play that right now.

SPEAKER_00: 22:53

Hey Angie, Dr. Celeste here. Congratulations on receiving this prestigious award for all of your hard work in promoting public awareness and understanding of aphasia. Who would have thought that when we started our podcast, that we would be in over 72 countries spreading awareness and talking about topics that matter to survivors with aphasia? I'm so honored to be your co-host and share such an amazing platform with you. But most importantly, I'm so proud of your humor, your motivation, your tenacity and resilience in doing things that matter to you, but also in helping individuals. I'm so excited about all of the amazing things that you will continue to do with art and your key lectures, and just how you continue to motivate me to be my best self. Uh, thank you again for everything that you do. We are so grateful to have you. And yeah, you're the real deal. Love you.

SPEAKER_01: 24:01

So, to all her other friends, uh, I don't know if you have her on tape saying that you're the real deal, but um, you know, are you? You know what I'm saying? Like, I got it on tape, so I don't want to brag. I don't want to be out here like uh I got it on tape, I have it on video. Um y'all say y'all cool. You say you know she loved you, but I mean you have it on tape now, like where the video at? Where's I got receipts? I got receipts. Let's get it. So yeah, I'm gonna leave y'all with that. I'm gonna leave the let listen. And yeah, she will be starting every show. I will be ending every show with her voice. Uh, she is the bookends. Um, and I'm gonna try not to um I'm gonna do what I gotta do. Alright, so I appreciate you guys rocking with me, staying with me, and I can't believe I've been yapping this long. Um, when I cut on the mic, I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna say. But it seems like I said it all. Thank you to everyone that's listening. Thank you. Alright. I got some work to do. Go birds. Let's get it.

SPEAKER_00: 25:27

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